Episode 35 | Conservatorships 101: Britney Spears' Memoir

On this Law & Pop Culture episode, we are revisiting the first episode of the podcast in which we talked about Britney Spears' Conservatorship (or Guardianship as it is known in NJ) and the legal battle she undertook to revoke it. This time around we get a fresh new perspective on how she ended up under this Conservatorship thanks to her Memoir: The Woman in Me. Christine and Kristine discuss the legal loopholes that this legal tool has and how it is possible for people who don't need this type of control over their lives and finances to end up in an unfair situation the way Britney did. 

Thanks for listening, to learn more about The Matus Law Group head to our website
www.matuslaw.com
Follow us on social media
https://www.facebook.com/matuslawgroup
https://www.instagram.com/matuslaw/
https://twitter.com/MatusLawGroup

Transcript

1
00:00:03.430 --> 00:00:29.350
Christine Matus: Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Wherever anybody's listening to this, this is the Mattis log group podcast where we talk about things that we see in the news or things that we hear about or celebrities and related back to estate, planning, or guardianships. This is our podcast of law and pop culture, and we're so excited, all of you, to join us. It's just something that we really love.

2
00:00:29.350 --> 00:00:34.410
I'm Christine Mattis, and I am joined by my fabulous co-host.

3
00:00:34.430 --> 00:00:57.680
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: Christy Karen. Hi, good morning, everybody. Good afternoon. Good evening. So you know, I'm really excited about today's podcast. We're kind of circling back to what we talked about 3 years ago. So Chris, remember, about 2 years ago we talked about the Britney Spears Conservatorship. It's actually, you know, the thing that prompted us to do a podcast to begin with. Right? Chris.

4
00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:15.620
Christine Matus: yep, that was the big episode, the first episode, because we were all so troubled about what was going on, and we were getting a lot of questions in our office about like, could this happen what happened to her? So, yeah, that was a big. That was a big topic. And I it's back again.

5
00:01:15.620 --> 00:01:38.360
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: I know, I know, and this time we're kinda hearing it from her point of view. We did hear it from, you know, from Britti's point of view at that time. But let's just do a quick, summary, Chris, and I'll you know I wanted to like lay out for everybody what's happened, and a little bit of tidbit about what happened in her book to the things that she saw from her perspective. And what she was reporting happened that happened during that time.

6
00:01:38.360 --> 00:02:02.380
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: because, as you know, like a lot of these Conservativeship, or what we call them in Jersey is guardianships, you know. The whole process is usually very private. It's not something that's closed in court records to be shown to the public, and you know thankfully, you know, because, of course, these are the type of things that are so personal don't want the world to know about them. But when you're hearing it from her point of view.

7
00:02:02.380 --> 00:02:24.140
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: you're almost mortified and hoping. Gosh! I hope this is just a really bad perspective, because, after reading, you know her recent memoir, the Woman in Need, which came out, you know, this year, you know, it really puts a lot of things in perspective, especially for me as well just hearing you know what what went on. You know, it's a topic that

8
00:02:24.730 --> 00:02:32.529
Christine Matus: we talk about a lot with our clients, because it's something that might be needed to help someone another adult. But

9
00:02:32.650 --> 00:02:53.289
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: you're right when you hear what happened to her. You hear a lot of things that just makes you pause about the whole process. Yes, it really does. So, you know. Let's delve into that real quick. I mean, let's just generally so back in 2,021. You know, this was about 13 meters into a big, a conservatorship, right?

10
00:02:53.290 --> 00:03:09.239
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: Basically, there was social media campaign going on about free Britney, you know. It became. It came to the world's attention that Britney Spears had a very overly regulated life under her conservatorship, and so this movement

11
00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:29.760
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: provided her with the courage to speak up and eventually reclaim her freedom. So she goes in front of a judge in June of 2021, and pleaded with him, for I forget that, you know, to to end the conservatorship. So basically, her father, 13 years prior, Jamie Spears was appointed by a California court

12
00:03:29.760 --> 00:03:41.239
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: so that whole process that she started to terminated about 3 months later. It was suspended, you know, and then another. 2 months later it was actually terminated.

13
00:03:41.240 --> 00:04:01.700
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: So there is, you know, a lot of that court process. It was out in the media at that time. Of course, we want to hear all details. I just want to make sure that you know the Britney spears there. Mickey Mouse girl was like, you know, I didn't realize that's really where she started I had no idea. Oh, I don't know why I had no idea about.

14
00:04:03.130 --> 00:04:10.080
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: and how many other stars started where she that's fascinating to me.

15
00:04:10.180 --> 00:04:34.109
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: But anyhow, I mean for the end. Of course, you're not familiar with her, she actually and I'm reading her memoir. It was really interesting, because, you know, she started, you know, very young, I mean, she was just a really good singer. She was really good performer. Our parents, you know. We're we're doing things, you know, that allowed her to kind of step up and realize what she wanted to do with her life, and she was actually signed up with a record label, and when she was only 50,

16
00:04:34.160 --> 00:05:01.429
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: no hands down right? I mean, when you hear her voice and you can he? And I think one of the things that resonated with me, that she was always a professional, no matter what was going on her life. But when she was in that studio, I mean she could turn it on. There was there was this clip I had seen a few months ago, Chris, where young, I think she was 16 or 17

17
00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:29.310
Christine Matus: and they were showing her in between takes when she was filming her videos so she would be relaxed or whatever. And then, when the the camera was on. She turned. You can see it turned on that professionalism, and then she would if she had a blooper. She turned off, but then back on again. I mean, that's to me. I'm like that is good, I mean. And at that young age already like that I really was astounded. How how really great she is. She really is great, former really great.

18
00:05:29.310 --> 00:05:37.739
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: absolutely. And I mean, winning 7 Grammy awards. You know, that was that was pretty amazing. I mean. So for for somebody that yeah.

19
00:05:37.740 --> 00:06:01.529
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: And her career went on from, you know, 90 well, actually still going on. But prior to Conservatorship. It was from 1997 to 2,008. Right? That's when the ship started, and during that time, of course, we saw her grow up. And, you know, saw her get married twice. And you know she was the media, I say, is just

20
00:06:01.530 --> 00:06:29.290
Christine Matus: so vicious. Right? Yeah, showing her in the most negative, like whatever they can do. II mean, I feel that they're they're probably the reason why things you know things are seen apart, seen so negatively. But that's me. The whole idea of how they were portraying her, and with no sympathy and lack of perspective of her need for mental health. For her condition.

21
00:06:29.290 --> 00:06:44.100
Christine Matus: It was made fun of. I mean, it was a it's appalling when you see it now, and you hear about what they did to her and parading her and her call for help, and instead of being sympathetic and helping her in private professionally, they they made fun of her. They

22
00:06:44.100 --> 00:07:08.429
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: they did just tear. The meeting was just relentless on her just just horrible. And and and even her support system was just failed her. Really, I know. And you know, and and it's so interesting that you know Forrest is pushed, you know. Probably her father he who was seeing this cash PAL. Right? No.

23
00:07:08.430 --> 00:07:19.090
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: I mean, that's you know. And again, we also are reading her perspective. But I mean, that's it was pretty obvious, even though she was still in the conservative, but it worked her to death. Alright, I know

24
00:07:19.090 --> 00:07:42.150
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: absolutely, and I mean you know it was then, when you know, and of course to involuntary, I think there were 2 involuntary psychological assessments that were made on her. And somehow she lost her freedom, you know, to make these decisions for herself, and she says she even said she felt she lost her identity once her dad was named as her conservator.

25
00:07:42.160 --> 00:08:02.440
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: He's you know. She even says in her book I quoted him. I even Britney spears. Now that's a little rough, you know. And for the next 30 years she talks about how everything she did was monitored. There were so many restrictions placed on her. She was placed on lithium, she was.

26
00:08:02.440 --> 00:08:13.399
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: and putting on, based on drugs, you know, against her own will say right, of course. She even likened herself to to being a child robot

27
00:08:13.460 --> 00:08:37.720
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: iphone was being monitored. Phone calls through being monitored. Text messages were monitored even to the point where she, when she, before she started, you know, going before she went out of the date with somebody, they would give this person, her medical history, her sexual partners. It's like what, though appalling to me, was just

28
00:08:38.150 --> 00:08:40.370
Christine Matus: how the assumption was

29
00:08:40.460 --> 00:08:42.360
Christine Matus: that you really can make

30
00:08:42.470 --> 00:08:50.939
Christine Matus: what the it was seeming like it was so confusing. Where she can't make any of these decisions. We have to control everything yet, you know, when it came to

31
00:08:50.960 --> 00:09:18.769
Christine Matus: her earning money and financial situation to, you know, benefit everybody else. That's where she was, you know, given out some type of limited freedom to express herself. But I just kept thinking, like, my goodness, this wh, what's happening here? Right? Conservative or guardianship is to help guide the person who can't make decisions with the goal of maybe eventually, you know, it happens we all have situations where we don't think

32
00:09:18.770 --> 00:09:30.030
Christine Matus: a person will ever be independent just because of their condition. But you're always see. Well, what what more can I give them? What more freedom can I give? Can I allow, you know, to have the ultimate

33
00:09:30.040 --> 00:09:32.739
Christine Matus: conservatorship or guardianship really is.

34
00:09:32.760 --> 00:09:51.119
Christine Matus: You know you don't. If you can avoid it, you want to, and I don't see that with Britney it was opposite. It was like every year. How much more restrictive can we make, or how much more restrict, instead of aiming for the better? Oh, it's frustrating to see this, because, you know, granted.

35
00:09:51.190 --> 00:10:02.330
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: maybe that's not the intent of the parent, but that's what the what that's the perspective of the person who is under this concern the ward right? And you know

36
00:10:02.330 --> 00:10:27.100
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: she Ca, she talks. She talks so much about the things that they make. They forced her to do the things that they were, you know, requiring her to do what? Whether it's, you know, she was only allowed to eat chicken, and, you know, can vegetables, for, for you know, for a good amount of time, because she was considered that. Oh, goodness! You know things like, you know, not even having television and having 9 Pm. Bedtime. You're a grown woman.

37
00:10:27.780 --> 00:10:37.450
Christine Matus: crying out loud. All of this was happening. Nobody. Nobody was stepping up to her for her side.

38
00:10:37.450 --> 00:11:01.620
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: sari, or questioning. Exactly. II and I mean it's not we're not talking about. You know. It wasn't was somebody who was going through, and I would say a temporary, you know situation, you know. She talked about to how you know some of the things that the Paparazzi blew up were at a time when she was fighting for custody against her ex-husband, Kevin Kevin Federline, and it was a time when her answer

39
00:11:01.620 --> 00:11:14.419
passed away. And you know the things that she was, you know, that she was the the media was displaying about her with times, and she was trying to fight back, not, not, you know, be controlled so much by what was going on around. Her

40
00:11:14.420 --> 00:11:36.680
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: father was trying to do. So it was, which is really sad, because nowhere now we're not actually hearing it from her voice. As to what really transpired. It's so interesting to things that you know. Oh, gosh! The things that you are reading in this book. It's made you realize that there is. You know, why the guardianship is so important.

41
00:11:36.690 --> 00:11:48.010
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: But at the same time it's so easily used, because without really taking into account. You know what the person is capable of doing. And you know.

42
00:11:48.530 --> 00:11:54.260
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: analyzing what, where we could be with this person, you know, in the future.

43
00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:59.619
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: It's very easy for a court to say yep. full guardianship.

44
00:11:59.730 --> 00:12:09.219
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: because you're presenting a person who is so incapacitated right this minute without taking into account, hey? Maybe this is temporary.

45
00:12:09.220 --> 00:12:30.529
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: and of course there, you know, in process of guardianship, is not very easily granted in any sort of law, but you know. Probably at that time I can see why, you know, with things going on the way they did, social media having some influence over how the port may have made the decision. I'm not sure if that was any.

46
00:12:30.590 --> 00:12:45.800
Christine Matus: Yeah, I mean, I don't even know what happened. It sounds, you know. So in every when we have. So I'm gonna talk in the perspective of New Jersey families with guardianship, we really, it's a heavy thought number one. And then there's several people involved.

47
00:12:45.800 --> 00:13:02.069
Christine Matus: So we have, say our firm to help with the application. Then there is a court appointed attorney to represent the person who we are. Wanting to have the guardianship over, and you know they will write a report. They will review things.

48
00:13:02.070 --> 00:13:11.099
Christine Matus: and I'm just so curious, you know, when it was with Britney. What that person? And again you would hope that they were writing it with the eye of, you know.

49
00:13:11.110 --> 00:13:35.769
Christine Matus: Hopefully, this will get better. These are what's going on with her. So good situation, good tool for her now, but not but I don't know. But in every you know in here in New Jersey. Right? We have annual reports wellness to check in. I don't know what was going on there in California. The motions and just checking it off still needs it still needed. We look fees that were involved. Right, Chris. The fees people are getting paid

50
00:13:35.800 --> 00:13:48.619
Christine Matus: hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions millions at the end of the day. Millions! Why, there was no initiative to try to release right? Which is so sad. That's another thing.

51
00:13:48.680 --> 00:14:18.309
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: Yeah, because the Guardian himself is making money on this, you know. Obviously, the money that she had she had earned for herself. That's technically, that's her money. But when there's a conservative relationship. When there's a guardianship, it's under the control of the Guardian, so I can see why the father might have said, well, I want to be able to control this. And by the way, he got paid, too, I'm sure, getting paid

52
00:14:18.460 --> 00:14:36.320
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: so many people getting paid just with this guardianship alone, just addressing this particular issue. So you know, when it's so interesting. But she didn't even realize she didn't. She was so afraid, you know, and some of her passages that she had in her book. She was so afraid that, you know

53
00:14:36.610 --> 00:15:02.330
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: losing the ability to see their children because part of the you know, part of the things that they were, you know, putting over her head was, you know, without this conservative, she was afraid that at some point, you know, they're just not really in it to make her life better. And she just thought, you know, I have Abs all control. They could put my body under Gurney and I, you know, leave me there, and I'll have no say whatsoever. And it

54
00:15:02.330 --> 00:15:27.589
Christine Matus: it's so sad to get into that, you know, to to be in her shoes. No, no, it was very sad, very hard, you know. And and again, that total lack of support like turn to anybody to help her or to see her point of view. My goodness, that it was just a sad perspective, I mean. So I'll I listen to the audible version of.

55
00:15:27.590 --> 00:15:49.349
Christine Matus: and I'll tell you, Michelle Williams, if she doesn't get a grammy, Oscar, I know whatever she needs to get that she was the reader. I mean. She is a terrific actress. Terrific! Terrific! II can't explain that enough how great she was, and so Brittany chose the right person to to read her book. But, you know it was sad, you know you read it, and you just feel shocked

56
00:15:49.420 --> 00:16:02.409
Christine Matus: how far this went, how long it went, you know. So those are the things that I think people are afraid of. But I think it's good, though I think one of the good things about this book is that it really, you know.

57
00:16:02.560 --> 00:16:18.919
Christine Matus: cracked open this whole idea of guardianship. Why, it's good and why it may not be. And you know, Hello, everybody! We gotta pay attention to this and keep asking ourselves, Is this still a good idea? Is this still a good idea? Them right? Because whole ideas, you know, how is this helping them?

58
00:16:18.920 --> 00:16:37.010
Christine Matus: You know not how it's helping the people involved or people around. How is it helping them, you know, but I really hope it was a wake up call to a lot of places, because all of a sudden, when she took action, and she switched attorneys and things like that changed. And boy did that really work everywhere?

59
00:16:37.040 --> 00:17:04.429
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: Yeah, she was saying that the person who was appointed to her, you know, all those years really didn't do much. Yes, she talked to him quite a bit, but then, taking it, you know height, getting another attorney different perspective they they were so surprised that there was, you know, you know she was. She was in state, I mean, that's kind of that's really sad like. And I gotta say one thing you know about guardianships that I always have in the back of my mind. Is it?

60
00:17:04.550 --> 00:17:08.799
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: The court wants to see the least restrictive option

61
00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:10.329
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: to assist somebody?

62
00:17:10.369 --> 00:17:27.070
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: And this gardenship is really a last resort and a full guardianship, or the You know, the Guardian is for full control of everything, is really the last resort, should not be the first resort. We should find ways to make, you know, to make the the person who needs the guardianship have

63
00:17:27.387 --> 00:17:42.920
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: as much freedom as they can the things that you know that are important to them, things that they know that they can do because it's not everything I mean. There might be such. Of course there are situations where we can't. We're full. Guardianship is necessary and warranted.

64
00:17:42.970 --> 00:18:06.240
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: but sometimes it's not, and it really it takes some time to really look at the situation. It's not a blanket for everybody, blanket, decision, or option for everybody, and that's why I always sell families, you know, whoever you work with. When you're bringing up the idea of guardianship, you want to make sure that they really explain to you how it works who's involved.

65
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:16.230
Christine Matus: Why, it's a great idea, and things to, you know, to take pause and to assess is that, you know, is this really still the right tool? Because there are other tools, and I've had

66
00:18:16.230 --> 00:18:27.579
Christine Matus: talks with families where we may think it's a guardianship. But we feel that's just not right, based on their circumstances. So let's do something else. You know it's happened, you know, often enough.

67
00:18:27.580 --> 00:18:49.839
Christine Matus: and and I think you know, it's always the right decision. And if we need to revisit, we revisit because things change. I love to say this person's like this so forever. It'll always be this it you know, things change, change, circumstances change. So. What might be a good tool now may not be proper, and we've had cases where

68
00:18:50.010 --> 00:18:53.400
Christine Matus: a person will think that they have

69
00:18:53.470 --> 00:19:16.899
Christine Matus: they need the guardianship, and I had a woman where her husband was in a terrible car. Accident had no cognitive ability, but he got better, Chris. So the process, after 3 years to get rid of the guardianship, you know, and and that was a good thing. That was a very, very good thing, you know. So again, we're always revisiting and always reviewing things together. So that's

70
00:19:16.900 --> 00:19:24.939
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: absolutely, absolutely. And you know you can't take those yearly guardianship. You know our annual reporting light week.

71
00:19:24.940 --> 00:19:41.729
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: You know, this is really an opportunity, at least in Jersey, right? There is an annual report of well being, and if there is a, you know, guardianship of the property. Also, there is a reporting of that, as well as to how the the Guardian is managing that person's money.

72
00:19:41.730 --> 00:20:05.159
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: and I think, more importantly, just that annual report report a well-being. It should be taken lightly, because if there really is a change in circumstances, I use, that's the wrong area of law. But you know, you know, a change in the condition of the person where you know. Maybe at 1.1 of the reasons for the guardianship was because of, you know, perceived

73
00:20:05.620 --> 00:20:19.920
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: in ability to manage, you know, their finances. But they've gotten better, and they've taken. I don't know. Behavioral courses that may help them, you know, be a better. You know, manager of the funds

74
00:20:20.190 --> 00:20:45.080
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: there have to take all that into consideration, because, even though the court may say at the outset, they want the least restrictive option for them. It really is incumbent on that person who may not know that they have this right, just like Brittany didn't know that she had the right to really terminate anything, but it's up to them to voice, you know their opinion.

75
00:20:45.360 --> 00:21:14.259
Kristine Carranceja-Gurski: the guardian saying, Hey, listen! You can do this on your own. You know everybody. Hopefully. They learned a lot, and it was a great. I encourage everyone to read the book and to learn more about it. And this is something that we do all the time. And we love helping families find the right solution. But we thank everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening. And we're gonna be ready for our next episode. And again, if you have an idea for our next episode. Please let us know. Admin at Madisoncom.

76
00:21:14.260 --> 00:21:24.839
Christine Matus: We're happy to hear all your suggestions, and I thank you so much, Chris, thank you so much again. Thank you. Everybody. Moment. Okay, have a great thank you. Bye.